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Post by moredankantose on Aug 24, 2009 19:16:22 GMT 3
Hello all. Ok: My name is MoredanKantose. I am the "Ataman" of The Cossacks, a Party of eRussian patriots who understand English. The CP-SU and me have some differences (we are patriots, you are internationalists) but we have also some similarities (we are direct, we hate TOs, we are cosmopolite). Maksim Chuikov can testify that I am the *only* leader of eRussia who openly attacked eRA (a huge eRusian party) for TO the CP-SU. By doing this, I risked to be TOed myself (my party had about 20 people, eRA had about 400). He can also testify that I do not lie and I keep my word, and everybody you ask will tell the same, with the possible exceptions of Sahar Burunduk (FRP troll) and the infamous thief and TOer Martin Blumen. You know me by my enemies... I am not communist. But I very much respect real, serious communists. In eRussia, I consider them a part of eRussian culture, and the true representans of the working class. We Cossaks represent the soldiers. And I get sad then I see that the CP-SU in eRussia is reduced to a bunch of people. I asked myself why. I heard about the "big theft". I knew Chuikov better. I decided to be very skeptical about this supposed "theft". I did not deny it, and I did not spread the story. Recently I have been named vice-president, and believe me, it is nothing I searched and nothing UncleDeD searched. He has simply no more options as to accept me, because he is risking a ban of Martin Blumen in the current situation. I denounced a "new" robbery in eRussia. Chuikov jumped saying that you never robbed. I answered that I was refering to Martin Blumens robbery. It was amost funny. The misunderstanding was resolved. But I developed the idea, that there must be a way to improve your situation in eRussia. This situation is mostly the consequence of a horrible public image you have, and this image is the result of an official history telling that you are thieves and that was it. So I started to speak with Chuikov. I learned all the reasons why you consider that you deserve to keep the money, which was invested (not donated) by the people of eRussia. I think I understand them... at least many: * You liberated regions. * You are providing the people with cheap products. * The President is not the legitimate representant of the people, the more because he is usually not democratically elected, or democracy is a joke in eRussia, or he is a puppet. * You had the mission to build a communist society with this money, and if you return it, it will be used for something else. * And if you return it, your communist network will be destroyed. This is a problem. And the first I would like to know, is if you agree that there IS a problem. That you should be a flourishing party, with hundreds of members in the eRussian society (appart from the many others around the world), and that the reality is much less promising because of a version of history, which was been the only one told to the eRussians in the last decades (decades of days or course). There is a problem. And it would be nice to resolve it, without really damaging your project. Please think about this seriously. Be like RL commmunits are - serious. And tell me if you would not like to see this problem resolved. If you still doubt of me - ask Chuikov. Ask Comrade Stalin. Ask Comrade Robb. I can mention many communists who are my friends. I am not a communist, and I will never be - I think that it does not work. But I am not, and I have repeated it publicly, an anti-communist. I hope at least some of you answer "ok, it would be nice to get rid of that legend - let us hear you idea". Best regards.
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Post by moredankantose on Aug 24, 2009 19:27:35 GMT 3
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Post by Anatoliovich on Aug 24, 2009 19:28:26 GMT 3
Nonsense, at least, when it comes to the fact of the majority of this post. "Giving back money" helps nothing. Do I have to copy paste my last comment? :\
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maksim
Peoples' Commissar
Posts: 448
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Post by maksim on Aug 24, 2009 19:30:49 GMT 3
I'm finding it very funny how you ask us to be serious, RL Communists. To be honest with you, we are most likely the only Communists in eRepublik, at least in practice. Real-life Communists, throughout time have refused to cooperate with the bourgeoise. If they ever cooperated, it was because of a united effort against a greater threat (ie. fascism for example) or because of something else that has been more important then the class struggle (which Communism is founded on).
In any case, this summary of yours ended with a typical interrigation question (once again) which can only be answered with 'yes' or 'no'. I still fail to see the catch here. This kind of typing is rather insulting to us. You write a whole text to get us to agree or disagree with you so that you can continue your discussion (note, your discussion). The other side never seems to be able to get a chance to counter your argument.
It was well written, almost seems like you'd try to sympathize with us (even if you are, it's still subjective and inappropirate in an objective discussion).
Guess there is no other alternative to answer: please continue.
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Post by moredankantose on Aug 24, 2009 19:34:16 GMT 3
"it's still subjective and inappropirate in an objective discussion" And what you find "funny" is an objective subject matter... Ok... I will wait to the answers of the rest, ok? Best regards.
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Post by moredankantose on Aug 24, 2009 19:35:28 GMT 3
Of course giving back money does not resolve nothing, Anatoliovich. We need a much more complete solution.
But do you recognize that there is a problem for your comrades in eRussia?
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maksim
Peoples' Commissar
Posts: 448
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Post by maksim on Aug 24, 2009 19:49:28 GMT 3
If you're going to be waiting for the party members to agree or disagree with every text you write, we will not get anywhere. Most of our party members live in the US timezones, hence why it takes a day for an answer to get to you.
We are fully aware of our own problems and we are always working for new ways to combat them, there is no need for you to ratify this, hence why I'm proposing that you continue with your agenda.
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Post by moredankantose on Aug 24, 2009 20:07:48 GMT 3
We are not in a rush, and I would prefer to wait for more people to answer.
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maksim
Peoples' Commissar
Posts: 448
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Post by maksim on Aug 24, 2009 20:10:21 GMT 3
The active amount of members on this forum is about 6 persons, so there's no one to wait for.
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Post by Heymans on Aug 24, 2009 21:16:35 GMT 3
Sup. I agree with maksim. End discussion. I'm not a communist PS:
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Post by Eternal Winter on Aug 24, 2009 23:01:02 GMT 3
To begin, of course there is a problem that must be rectified.
We were thoroughly ostracized by the FRP and the following parties after them. Since then, we have only had problems with the eRussian community and have found it hard to flourish with our political ideology and our economic system which once flourished under our reign.
Also, I'd like to deflower any miscommunications or misunderstandings we may have.
Our party is the oldest still-remaining party in eRussia, not to mention the first party to implement marxism and a socialist economic system in eRepublik before - and - after the occupation of Norway.
We have never been outsiders or foreigners, and likewise to our perspective, parties created after us could be well deemed foreign to us but we aren't foolyhardy enough to deem other players as such.
We fought for our country and created communes to combat the Norwegian markets which ultimately lead to their dismissal of a few Russian regions, that in pact with using force from allying communist nations under the direction of the Internationale which our party founded.
Also, this "theft" you keep mentioning, was not a theft at all. Before there was even an FRP, we were the ruling party and nearly all eRussians were communist. The legislation approved through congress gave us the funds to keep the communes running so as to provide more products into the market for roughly .3 (and as even as low as .1) RUB per Q1 food. From our party of roughly 70 communist members, we formulated this system and it flourished until opposition came through Norwegian occupation and later after fighting for our land, the FRP, as well as a few nameless other parties, began claiming that they were in fact the ones who liberated eRussia.
Since that dreary era of eRussia, we were called outsiders for not speaking russian, though we were the oldest party in Russia and were the ones who solely fought to liberate Russia through the aid of the Internationale we created to aid ourselves as well as give cause to other communist parties around the world.
Then, to the aid of Creos and other disbelievers of the FRP, we were called thieves for the legislation that was approved to aid the GOSPLAN and flourish our economy solely for eRussia, seeing as a capitalist system is only doomed to fail to outside economic invaders.
It is not so much that we dislike other parties. To be correct, we would love to see that all of us could work together to make a system work. The only problem is found that when RL Russians disapprove of communism and use it against us for propaganda.
Now as for your plan, I don't honestly see any benefit that could be gained from our side. Not only will this not redeem our name in the community, but our communes will also suffer as they have been continuously working to improve perchance of another communist era or perhaps even a global effort.
For us to give our party's funds away for no reason seems absolutely absurd.
Before I leave, I must also comment on the FRP and other capitalist party attempts at refuting our communal issue. The fact of the matter is that our communes have been ran by our party. Under our government rule, they were once public property to aid the economy and give aid to the workers of eRussia.
Those communes were created, built, and managed by communist efforts. Seeing as they are owned by our party, it is inconceivable to think that capitalist parties would want to get something in return for nothing. They ask for our funds yet will not extend a welcoming hand into our political beliefs or our knowledge of economics. Through these conflicts we've lost several brilliant minds that founded the GOSPLAN who formulated this system through extensive research into what systems could or may disrupt the plan and what could make it flourish.
There is plenty more about this issue but it would take ages to talk about. The socialist system will never be welcomed and thus, we can see no reason as to why we would want to try and aid those who will not do so in return.
Also, if you want to talk about thieves, feel free to question the FRP about the Russian bank just before Romanian occupation. I think you will be quite surprised with how much money they landed without any harking from us... Not to mention it was a sum almost twice as large as what any of our communes have ever produced.
Think for yourself, question authority.
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Post by moredankantose on Aug 25, 2009 17:17:27 GMT 3
Hello, Eternal: I am happy to see that you also see a problem. But please don't try to teach me how to be a rebell... Ok: I understand you version of the story of eRussia, but I am not going to start here a discussion about it (sorry!). It is a long story, and I would have to consult many other sources, and this is not my purpose here. My purpose here is to try to resolve the problem. As simple as that. And for this, of course, I will have to make a proposition which you can accept. So. The problem is not that the eRussian population rejects communism. Many of them are now voting eRA and CP-SU (controlled by Lenin, eRA) because they believe in communism. I guess it is another form of communism, but they think that they are supporting communism. At least many of the normal members, let us put the leaders aside. You problem is your image - and this image is a result of the "theft" story. Now: My plan can be resumed like this. 1. Find out, which are the arguments used to speak about a theft. What do the people say, who say that this was a theft. Being one of those people (and I have read what you wrote, but I still think so) I can help you find out, why so many peolpe think like me. 2. When we have this, we can search a way to disable this arguments. Let me put an hypothetical example - if we say that "it was a theft because there is no in-game contract signed", then to sign an in-game contract whould disable this concrete argument. 3. Then, when we have the appropriate measures, which would disable the arguments... we put them a price. We negotiate. This price can be as low as one ruble, or as high as thousands. I will depend on the value that I give to the restauration of the image of the CP-SU (and, believe it or not, I am interested on the end of this dispute, or I would not be here), and the value you give to it. 4. Then, we try to find a way of approving all these, which is adequate for the CP-SU and the State. And then... we do it. This is my plan. And it will require your collaboration. Which is the reason why it would be absolutely stupid from my side to pretend that you try to give 80.000 RUB to the State. I know perfectly well that you cannot do this and you will never accept this either. So... what do you think about this plan? Best regards.
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Post by Eternal Winter on Aug 25, 2009 19:36:00 GMT 3
I think this plan is an honest attempt to try and redeem us, but it would be naive to believe that it would be so easy as to pay them to like us again.
There will never be a place for us in the eRussian community so long as there are those who still slander the CPSU name. No price tag can remove that.
What I don't understand is what you gain from us trying to clear our name. Why are you so interested in us trying to clear our name, and more importantly, signing a contract in order to do so?
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maksim
Peoples' Commissar
Posts: 448
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Post by maksim on Aug 25, 2009 19:43:55 GMT 3
The only, historical and official argument used by the state is a theft. The state never defined why we took it (by the state I'm of course referring to the FRP). Translate the first part of Creos ehistorial essay of eRussia. Then there are several articles in which some of the debate was done; check Manifesto's-, Smirnoff's- and Creos newspapers as far back as last November.
This would be an effective way to disable, but I will put my criticism in the third point.
We all know, that if the FRP, eRA and CDP are involved in this, they are going to press for a much higher repayment for this transaction. They may very well begin with demanding that we give back everything that we "stole" from "them". They will never agree on giving us this money officially, at least not for anything less then thousands if not tens of thousands. I'd say 1 rub is enough.
As I stated in the third reply, this would be impossible with people like Creos, Smirnoff and borges16 pulling the strings of not just the FRP, but the entire ecountry.
Have you informed the eRussian state about this discussion yet? (By the state, I'm referring to these three key persons).
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Post by Eternal Winter on Aug 25, 2009 23:29:34 GMT 3
It was never the FRP's money to begin with. They only started complaining once they took office and were like "Hmm, how can we get more money? Oh yeah! The communists have been working at this commune thing. Let's try and milk that."
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