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Post by Heymans on Aug 27, 2009 16:50:57 GMT 3
Hey can I get a review of the numbers in question? Any and all gold has never belonged to the FRP, and the only time it has belonged to the Russian state is when then CPSU party, controlled by democratically (eRA cheats, thus undemocratic) elected officials has power in the government. Even then the money was for economic, and not military purposes. Also, look at the sign up dates on most of our accounts. Manifesto, eternal_winter, Foreign Legion, Heymans, Duncomrade, maksim chuikov, botherme. Mombassa! (God diddlywinks it has been a WHILE). Amon Amarth, Gregor Karlsson...
These funds are ours. Never been yours.
The RUB you may argue belong to the national russian state, but since the majority of the state was us, and we transferred the money into the russian communes, it is the peoples.
Oh and before you start about any crap about corruption, may I remind you when smirnoff was using state funds that were to be used to defend from Romanian invaders..on making companies.
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Post by Eternal Winter on Aug 27, 2009 20:16:19 GMT 3
^ Yes, that's what the FRP doesn't like to "remember"
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Post by moredankantose on Sept 3, 2009 7:21:11 GMT 3
I beg your pardon.
I was named Minister of Defence and that meant some hours more of work per day. I could not participate here. But I do not abandon the idea.
Now I will answer you.
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Post by moredankantose on Sept 3, 2009 7:29:34 GMT 3
it would be naive to believe that it would be so easy as to pay them to like us again. That's why my proposal is much wider than this. There will never be a place for us in the eRussian community so long as there are those who still slander the CPSU name. No price tag can remove that. Maybe an official declaration of the Government can change that more. But I really ask myself why you stick with that name, being that you were TOed. But this is, alas, not something I can change. What I don't understand is what you gain from us trying to clear our name. Why are you so interested in us trying to clear our name, and more importantly, signing a contract in order to do so? This is why you do not understand me  Basically: I like you. I think that eRussia needs a "party of the workers", a real communist party which has experience with communist production systems. And I am not happy with a TOer from eRA as representant of this direction. I think that eRussia deserves better. |
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Post by moredankantose on Sept 3, 2009 7:35:41 GMT 3
Heymans:
I will not discuss in-depth who does the money belong to. It is not important. The important thing here is the perception of the population.
If you tell them that it was a direct donation, then the people will see no difference between:
- The CP-SU controlling the Government and donating himself money.
- The FRP controlling the Government and donating himself money.
It is better for you as a Party, to present it as an investment, where the money still belonged "to the people of eRussia" the day after the transaction.
Regardless who does this money belong now. I speak about "the day after the translation".
Best regards.
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Post by moredankantose on Sept 3, 2009 7:44:06 GMT 3
Maksim: Let us cross the river number 3 when we have crossed the river numbers 1 and 2. The only, historical and official argument used by the state is a theft Yes but which exact arguments do they use, to call it a theft? Please put here the link to that historical essay. Some of the arguments I think that they use are: - The absence of a written contract. This allows them to say "they took the money and that's it". There are no written obligations for the CP-SU. This makes you vulnerable from the point of view of the public image. - The position of some members of the CP-SU to say that right now "this money is ours", which puts you actually in the position of defending the private property of production means, which is hard to understand in a communist. Again: I am still not proposing any solution. Let us first try to find the problems. Best regards. |
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Post by Ninyel on Sept 3, 2009 13:21:48 GMT 3
I'm not sure this is really such a big issue. Russia gains approximately 250 new citizens every day, and most of these people do not know about, or if they do know, do not care about this issue. If people have Communist sympathies, why would they critisise us for taking Russian/Soviet funds? What is money to us, if not to try to help the Russian people and establish a political alternative with a conscience into this game?
The much greater problem to us is the TO. It is the eRA party that has the percieved authority of our party name, and I doubt many of our party members know about the TO. The Izvratists are clever, they change their avatars to appear as Communists, and must have computer codes that send their messages automatically to our party members, a system which I believe we lack.
But under the surface not only are the Izvratists clearly not Communists, they mock Communism wherever they can get away with it. Note that the CPSU is no-longer described as 'Libertarian', but 'Totalitarian'. To them, Communism is not a striving towards human liberation, but the opposite.
We need expose them, gain the ear of the mass of party members, new and old, and get our views across clearly before we can put the effort into redeeming our party name in the eyes of those few eRussians that have been dissuaded by the lies of theft against us (as well as the accusation that we armed the eUSA at the beginning of the current war, which I don't believe we, a democratic organisation, ever approved or carried out).
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Post by moredankantose on Sept 3, 2009 18:52:15 GMT 3
Ninyel, well, I asked you all if you see a problem, and many people see a problem. And I see it too. The story of the "theft" transmits from generation to generation of players, and it is a burden on your party.
About TO: I was there as you were definitively TOed, I tried to help but I was pretty weak at that time. We Cossacks have developed the Rivendell Pact, but apparently your party is not interested (eRussian Imperium, CDP and Cossacks are signataries). If you have so much resources: Why you haven't just created a new party? I don't understand this. But itis your decision, and I prefer to stick to the subject.
Best regards.
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Post by Eternal Winter on Sept 3, 2009 18:58:22 GMT 3
From what I can see, it doesn't appear so. What am I missing from this? Just because the government will sign a deal that legally makes them stop calling us theives doesn't mean it will actually end it.
There are legal speed limits posted up and down highways. How often do people actually follow them even though they are the law?
At an even greater insult, supposing this plan will not work as described above, we would be giving them money in addition to them making a deal that no one will abide by. Does that make any logical sense at all?
We keep the CPSU name because the only politics of our party matter on this forum where it cannot be messed with from outside invasion. Though the Izvratists may have TOd our in-game party, that doesn't matter when considering decisions here. So that is why we keep our real name.
Yes, I can see that you are not happy with the eRA. That still doesn't coincide with your thoughts about communism. Assuming like any other capitalist, why would you care about the workers at all? This just doesn't make sense at all for someone who doesn't support communism. Regardless of whether youre a sympathizer or not, I find it odd that you think we "need" a worker's party.
Funny thing is, our government was older than the new players coming in claiming we were thieves. Pretty ironic eh? They knew nothing of any of this except Creos and Smirnoff of the FRP having a power struggle between their party. They used a ton of propaganda against us, one of the more convincing being that we were thieves. They then had a massive campaign of recruiting in real life Russians and persuaded them into thinking we were foreign since we couldn't speak Russian. This is a very broad summary of the FRP reformation.
It's not that we want to keep it to ourselves, its just that the communist's hard work will be sapped by the capitalists with nothing in return. They will take but never give. Thus, we have worked collectively for over a year now on these communes. Why would we want them to go to waste on people who HATE us? Once they have the money, it will take little to no effort for them to forget about us and erase us from the history books.
I personally would love to see another communist era but this will never possible under the suggested guidelines of the so-called "deal".
Also Ninyel, you couldn't have said it any better. One of the first steps we need to make is to undermine their party and retake our party. But that requires many many more members...
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Post by moredankantose on Sept 4, 2009 15:50:50 GMT 3
Winter:
If we want to reach something, we will have to be more constructive and stick to the topic. Do not analyse a solution which as not been presented yet.
We agreed that the CP-SU has a problem in the public opinion.
The steps that I proposa are:
1. Find out, which are the arguments used to speak about a theft.
2. Search a way to disable this arguments
3. Put this way a price, how much is it worth for you.
4. Approve together a way to approve this way, which is acceptable for you and for the State.
If you have a better plan to resolve the problem, tell me. But if not, do not analyse a proposal which has not been made.
And if you want to question more why I do this, please do it in another thread, because it is distracting us from finding a solution, which is what I want to do here.
Please no more lessons of history. Please no more arguments about everything else. Let us try to resolve the problem. Ok?
So:
Do you have a better plan as my 4 step plan?
Or do you agree with starting the step 1?
Best regards.
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Post by Eternal Winter on Sept 5, 2009 6:05:52 GMT 3
This is where we disagree. We shouldn't have to pay anything. Regardless, even if we did, it would not stop the slander and only provide free funds for the capitalists in a legal agreement.
I don't mind your plan at all except for number 3. This will not solve anything and will only look in History as a bribe or a price to pay to annul our name. To add insult to injury, this may very well not work seeing as they expect the full amount of RUB (60k-70k RUB).
In my personal opinion, I don't believe there can be any straight forward notions that can counter this social aspect we've come across. In reality, I don't believe any such plan can exist that will stop them from harassing us.
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Post by Ninyel on Sept 5, 2009 14:32:20 GMT 3
I have a question for the longer-serving party members - Has anyone written an eRepublik article categorically denying the allegations of theft? I really don't think we can do much more than have one writen, and perhaps attempt to get its support from a sympathetic government figure or two.
And I am with Eternal on this - no bribery, compensation, whatever you want to call it. If anyone supports this tactic, do speak up and provide reasoning.
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maksim
Peoples' Commissar 
Posts: 448
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Post by maksim on Sept 5, 2009 16:39:11 GMT 3
Other measures have been taken to fix this problem. From the Commissariats point-of-view, this discussion is obsolete and serves no purpose any longer.
This discussion will not serve any practical difference, no matter what decision is reached.
More information in the proper categories later-on.
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Post by moredankantose on Sept 9, 2009 15:11:54 GMT 3
Ok people... you see a problem, but no solution, and you reject mine.
I had enough too.
You are happy with an insignificant Party which has had no influence in eRussia of any kind since I can remember? Go for it.
Walls of text to make your revolution. Encapsled in your own world, and too lazy or fearful to really try to make a diffence.
From now on I consider Izvrat the representant of the communists in eRussia. At least they do something.
If you change you mind, you know where to find me.
Paka.
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Post by moredankantose on Sept 9, 2009 15:14:16 GMT 3
attempt to get its support from a sympathetic government figure or two. You just lost one. I hope that your generation makes it better. Bye. |
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